Faust
Junior Member
Still building!
Posts: 90
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Post by Faust on Nov 24, 2019 19:07:45 GMT
Hey All!
I'm new here, but some of you might know me from other boards. I'm usually known as Faust, and I run a site called "The Sprue Lagoon".
Like pretty much everyone in the world, I've been trying to find a good paint to replicate chrome.
While Alclad is okay, I find it has many terrible and unforgiving properties (not to mention its prohibitive cost):
1. ) It is super-delicate If you apply it, and handle the parts at all, you're screwed - it'll rub right off. 2.) It dulls if you apply anything but Aqua Gloss Clear over it. Even that dulls it slightly, but it's not bad. Aqua Gloss rules. Alclad Chrome doesn't. 3.) It requires special, expensive primer, or at least super-high gloss black. 4.) It's a lacquer, so it's chemically hot, and if you don't like odour, you're SOL. 5.) You CANNOT apply it by hand, or touch it up by hand. it goes on silver UNLESS you airbrush it. 6.) It has to go on it very thin coats. Overdo it even a bit, and it's not going to work.
So, it's fragile, expensive and unforgiving. Great...
I've tried the AK stuff. It sucks. Hands down way too expensive for what you get. Disappointment in a jar. I don't like Mig and AK stuff to start, and this soured me on them totally.
BUT...
Molotow Chrome KICKS BUTT! Now, sadly, it is also expensive, but it is much better than Alclad with more forgiving properties. In answer to my list above :
1.) It is tougher than Alclad. True, it will rub down if you're really ham-fisted, but you CAN handle it a bit. 2.) It (and any chrome) will dull with Future or other glosses. Use Aqua Gloss. It works fine with the Molotow too! 3.) It will go on over ANY primer, or paint, with equal ease. 4.) Its alcohol-based, and must be thinned SLIGHTLY with 99% Isopropyl Alcohol to shoot properly. But it will shoot nicely. Be careful - overthin it and you have silver paint. It's a trial-and-error thing. The odor's not as strong, either. 5.) You CAN apply it by hand to small details (I use a filed-down toothpick), and they make it in PEN form, too! It can be touched up fairly easily, and is more forgiving in this regard. 6.) It's more forgiving with a heavy hand, and you get a bit more shine if it's on a bit heavier.
So, it's tougher, expensive, and more forgiving than the others. It's also "chromier", if that's a word.
I've never tried the Spastix, so I can't compare it to that.
None of these are as bright as kit-chrome, which is why I always totally strip the Kit stuff, and keep everything Molotowed - then I have consistency! Molotow looks a lot like Bare Metal Foil once it's on.
That's my two cents worth!
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Post by Firemist on Nov 26, 2019 4:02:01 GMT
First of all thank you for such a well written post! I think I may have the Aqua Gloss clear you are referring to, and I suggested it to one of the builders at the club I belong to who was looking for a way to make to the Molotow chrome more durable. I was also shown some chrome plated wheels that were touched up by brush using Molotow chrome with some excellent results. Finally, I am thinking Molotow chrome paint may become substantially more durable over an extended period of time like 2 or 3 months. I have thought about doing a test with plastic spoons and letting them sit and cure for a period of weeks and testing them every now and then so see how much of difference in durability it would make.
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Faust
Junior Member
Still building!
Posts: 90
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Post by Faust on Nov 28, 2019 1:09:59 GMT
I'm always a bit cheesed that any kind of chrome gets its shine 'knocked down' by a gloss coat, but the Aqua Gloss is the least offensive of the glosses I've tried on this front. I never thought of Molotow getting tougher with age. I'm of a somewhat oily complexion, so if I don't gloss paints, I usually ruin them, acrylic or not! the Molotow dries really fast in the dehydrator (as per your other topic). I wonder what happens if you dry it for like, 24 hours solid? Hmm... Glad you liked the post! I tend to write a lot when I get to it. You can see that from my website!
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Post by Firemist on Nov 29, 2019 16:56:53 GMT
On the subject of Molotow and AllClad Chrome, this build of Monogram's Red Baron has an interesting story behind it. I built this kit about 10 years ago, and I bought it on Ebay. When I first received the kit, I opened the box and checked out the the chrome helmet and noticed it had been scratched to the point where it wasn't really presentable. Most likely, I am thinking the kit probably changed hands a few times; which damaged the finish on the helmet from all the shipping. So, I decided to strip the chrome and re-finish it with AllClad Chrome; which back then was the only option I knew of at that time. After stripping the helmet in caustic, I painted it with a couple coats of Testor's black gloss enamel, and set it aside for awhile to completely cure. After the black paint was cured I wet sanded it, and later polished with Novus fine scratch remover to a high gloss finish. Finally I applied the Alclad Chrome in few very light coats. Unfortunately, when I applied the decals, I had trouble trimming the clear portion from one of the Iron Crosses on the helmet, and as time went by and the decal aged it became really unsightly. Flash forward to about 6 months ago, I decided to remove the helmet and print up some new Iron Crosses which I carefully trimmed. During the process of removing the helmet I noticed the AllClad chrome had a fair amount of resistance to being marred by finger prints. Also, when I went to remove and strip the helmet again the chrome paint wasn't all that easy to remove, and I even had to use some solvent to get down to the black enamel. Unfortunately, I was a bit hasty and used Testors Easy Lift Off to remove the enamel paint underneath; which resulted in damaging the brittle polystyrene under the paint. If you look under the iron cross decal you can see the small chunk of plastic that came out of the helmet. My point is I realized that AllClad gets better with age, and I am thinking this may prove to be the case with the Molotow paint as well. The picture above represents the model after having its helmet redone about 6 months ago. At this point, the AllClad helmet can be handled gently with clean hands without significantly dulling the chrome paint. On the downside for the AllClad, it does have a very slight grainy look to it when you look at it really closely. The pictures of the kit were taken with a Cannon S90 at a fairly high resolution so it really makes it easy to see any imperfections in the finish. I am thinking maybe I should of tried the Molotow, but I didn't have a bottle of refill for my airbrush. Also, so far I have only used the Molotow with the pen or by cracking a pen open and using a small amount with a paint brush. The really nice thing I have found about Molotow is is that it levels out really well when applied with a brush. On the subject of coatings, I have tried the Aqua Clear on parts that I thought I couldn't avoid touching when handling the model and it does dull the chrome very slightly, and this is the reason I didn't opt to use it on the helmet. One other thing while on the subject of coatings for chrome paint finishes, one of our members read about a Spaztix clear coating in one of the model car magazines and tried it out on some Molotow and unfortunately it turned silver. I am going to give him a sample of the Aqua Clear at our next meeting and see what he thinks. I am thinking the Aqua Clear is the better choice because I am guessing by the name that it is water based; which should't cause the chrome paint to soften and turn to a silver finish. In the end, which I stated before I think it would be interesting to see what happens if the Molotow is given an extended period to dry, and I am guessing it should get more resistant to fingerprints as the AllClad has done. I think the idea of the simulated chrome finish getting stronger over time has escaped a lot of modelers because they avoid touching them! Needless to say, I don't recommend touching either Molotow or AllClad finishes on your kits if you can avoid it. In addition to being easier to apply because it doesn't need a base coat of black, I feel the Molotow also looks closer to chrome and does not have the grainy appearance of AllClad, no matter how well you apply it. I would also like to note, that I feel the Testors gloss black enamel is the best base coat you can use to back the AllClad Chrome, and I tried AllClad's base coat black and I feel it really didn't work very well. Will I stop using the AllClad completely, probably not. The reason why I keep both of the paints on hand is because I feel that the different shines can add realism to some of my builds especially the bikes where you need to simulate different types of metal.
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Faust
Junior Member
Still building!
Posts: 90
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Post by Faust on Dec 18, 2019 15:12:54 GMT
I never would have thought about leaving it to age and get tougher! That's amazing, but it does make sense, when you stop to think about it. It's a shame that there's nothing that you can coat with that preserves the pure chrominess of either paint, but I wonder if power-drying in a dehydrator for a few days at 40°C might work? It does for other paints... Hmm.. I agree that the Molotow is very much likely the best for chrome at this moment. Not only that, but I like it goes over any primer. I've not tried it yet, but it seems that Rustoleum gloss black, decanted for airbrushing, might make a good base for Alclad. It's quite glossy and tough as nails. Dries well in a dehydrator, too! It's also much cheaper!
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Post by bullittdave on May 16, 2020 14:23:42 GMT
As far as the Molotow goes, are you talking about the pens? I have a 2 and a 4, I believe, but I could never get a smooth finish on anything using them. I tried using the pen like a marker, and also dabbing it on. Is there some kind of buffing or something I can do to get it smooth and shiny?
I like the look of the Allclad on the helmet. That's quite acceptable to me. How does Allclad apply?
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Post by Firemist on May 16, 2020 15:20:43 GMT
A few tips on Alclad, I have found Testors gloss black enamel probably makes about the best base coat I have seen so far, secondly you want to let the black base coat dry thoroughly and then polish it up, and finally, once your black surface has been prepared you have to apply the Alclad slowly in very light coats, and watch your progress. You don't want to over do it. Also, the finish can be easily damaged until every thing sets for a good long time like maybe a few weeks. You can still work with it after a day or two, but I would user gloves until it really sets.
Also, as for Moltow, I have found that either spraying it or brushing it on yields some pretty good results. Moltow seems to be self leveling when you apply it with a brush. Again, over time the finish becomes more durable. You should wait at least a few days before you touch it in my experience.
Of the two chrome paints, I would say Moltow is a bit easier, but the alcad can be fairly durable once its dried for a long while. I should do some aging test to see how resistant the Moltow gets to fingerprints and overall durability, but I am having enough trouble getting moving with my builds.
Below is a video of how to apply Alcad chrome, the person that made the video does an extra step with the clear, but I have found the secret to a good Alcald finish is a nice glossy black base. I will try to find some videos about spraying Moltow when I get a chance.
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Post by bullittdave on May 17, 2020 13:35:19 GMT
Thanks for posting that.
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